Outperforming Competitors During a Downturn | Jay Abraham

On today’s episode of Strategy Sessions, business strategist Jay Abraham shares actionable strategies for growing revenue, expanding market share, and creating competitive advantages during economic downturns. Abraham explains how companies can outperform competitors by optimizing marketing and sales, focusing on high-value clients, leveraging partnerships, and strategically diversifying offerings. He emphasizes that proactive, calculated actions—not fear-driven reactions—enable businesses to thrive even in challenging markets.

Abraham highlights the importance of maximizing existing systems, maintaining strong relationships with top customers, and adopting innovative approaches to leverage untapped opportunities. He also shows how businesses can use partnerships and emerging technologies to access new markets quickly, while continuously enhancing value for current clients. By combining a strategic mindset with careful execution, companies can achieve sustainable growth, strengthen loyalty, and outperform competitors without relying solely on additional capital investment.

Key discussion points:

• Optimizing marketing and sales systems to convert more leads
• Prioritizing high-value customers to maintain loyalty and capture market share
• Leveraging strategic partnerships for new revenue streams
• Expanding product and service offerings for existing clients
• Adapting to technology and market trends for competitive relevance
• Diversifying revenue sources to reduce vulnerability during downturns

Transcript

Why Uncertainty Hits So Hard

Jim Fitzpatrick 0:14

Every entrepreneur knows the feeling. Markets shift, customers hesitate to purchase, and the future feels anything but certain. On this episode of Strategy Sessions with Jay Abraham, Jay joins me to unpack how to not only survive uncertainty, but to use it as a strategic advantage to thrive. Jay Abraham, thank you so much for joining me once again on the show.

Jay Abraham 0:36

It has always been and is a pleasure.

Jim Fitzpatrick 0:39

Let's let's

Make Marketing And Sales Stronger

Jim Fitzpatrick 0:40

talk about this. Let's unpack this because companies are seeing a slowdown in sales and in demand. Profitability is down. What are the most predictable actions that they can take to kind of neutralize and maybe get their businesses going and maybe growing again in these uncertain times?

Jay Abraham 0:57

Well, there are quite a few, and I'm going to generalize, pardon me, but I'll also try to isolate different implications. So the first thing is depending on how you generate your business, you've got to make your mechanism better. Most people don't really know how much more powerful they can make their marketing. They don't know how much more effective they can make their salespeople. They don't know how much more effective they can make their proposition. They don't know how much more uh uh appealing, attractive, and irresistible they can make their offer. They don't know how much more enhancing it can be if they add bonuses to it. So those are really quickly, it's a throwaway statement. But in that statement, Jim, there's probably five leverage points no one even thinks about. And I can go deep on any one of them. That's one. Second is when your business slows down, the best way to get it going and growing is to recognize two things. As long as the market doesn't stop entirely, there are two kinds of activities that are going to continue to go on. New people coming into the market, people who keep buying whatever it is you sell. I mean, because you might have a repeat product, you might have many other products. So your competitors are also experiencing the same, you know, the same downshift. And they are reacting probably by cutting services, by cutting down their marketing, and by being reactive. Some aren't, but the majority are, particularly if you're not a very sophisticated big company. And when that happens, you have a great opportunity to multiply your business by being more value creating, by being more uh, you know, more uh attentive in your service support, by being more uh more generous in your risk reversal. And I can get into all of these, but what I've told people before, and I've had to deal because I've been doing this for so many decades that I've had to deal with recessions, downturns, uh COVID, uh everything you can imagine. Yeah, is that yeah, it and

Win When Competitors Pull Back

Jay Abraham 3:14

and also when business slows down, oftentimes companies eliminate duplication or they consolidate. One of the consolidation factors, this happened in COVID all the time. They'd get the most expensive talent and they'd be the first ones they would they would jettison because they cost so much. But if they don't have a non-compete cause, those people typically have a very strong bond with the buyers, with the decision makers, and we would basically either hire them at a lower fixed price, but a very high variable success bonus if they had the they brought their book of business, or if they didn't want to be hired, we would work a deal with them that once we showed them how superior our company products service people were, we would get them to introduce us very strongly with endorsement to all their old clients. And there's just a lot of things you can do that none of your competitors would ever think of. And the bottom line is a market can be dropping, but you can multiply dramatically your share of the market by outthinking, out-strategizing, out-value creating, and out-uh contributing.

Jim Fitzpatrick 4:26

Everybody seems to go into like this turtle effect where they just say, uh-oh, these are not great times, and they just withdraw. They, to your point, they cut back staff, maybe they cut back uh important people and sales, some of the uh some of the rainmakers in the company and what have you, to your point, because they're expensive. And uh and then they just take this well, let's wait it out and let's see what happens over the course of the next six months or longer to see if the economy gets better and then we'll come out again. And uh I I often see that among small business owners. I might have been guilty of that myself one or two times in running businesses. It's not the right move, though, right? I mean, that's what you're talking about, is is looking for other areas of your company to grow and to really accentuate rather than have this have this hide and seek or the have this hideaway effect, right?

Jay Abraham 5:14

Yeah, well, here's something that most people don't think about. The 80-20 rule typically applies to any kind of a business. You got 20% of the people that are 80% of your profit, and they may be recurring or they may be uh static, but it's a core that's many times more valuable, more profitable. But when times get challenging, companies constrain or and constrict on all kinds of support, services, attention, and follow-through, and they leave the best people feeling unattended, which is a perfect uh shoots and ladders. It's a perfect uh shoot for you to be able to take them to your business because you don't have to cut value, you don't have to cut service, you can actually add, you can add bonuses, you can add greater risk reversal, greater guarantees, greater everything. And all of a sudden, the companies they may have actually dealt with are dissing them because they're they're aggregating the little and the big together, the valuable and the and and the marginal ones together, and the people that are really the core of their profitability, you know, are being abandoned. You know, they and again, and this is not an exact uh reference, but they used to say that in Las Vegas, I think it's the the back, not the back ax, it's the uh I can't remember what there's one category where the whales are there, and that's 80% of their profit.

Jim Fitzpatrick 6:39

Yeah, yeah.

Jay Abraham 6:40

Good times or bad times, they do not cut back on the attention. They do not because they know they're gonna be there forever if they support them. But a lot of times in bad times, a lot of management thinks, okay, the sky is falling, there won't be a tomorrow. We have to basically dig in and they get very short-term uh transactional and tactical instead of keeping uh strategic for the long term. And and again, it's hard sometimes if you're small, but you've got to realize everything I stand for is not doing what everyone else does the same way they do it. Because if you do what everyone else does in bad times, you're gonna cut back, you're gonna take back, you're gonna stop your marketing, you're gonna not give as much service, you're gonna cut out some of the most essential people, you're gonna look at the expensive people, and you're either going to terminate them or you're going to reduce their compensation, which, if they have any integrity and any negotiability, they're gonna go somewhere else, even if they go nowhere else and they quit because they don't need to tolerate that reactive attitude and that disrespect for their value.

Jim Fitzpatrick 7:51

That's right. That's

Risk Reversal That Unlocks Buyers

Jim Fitzpatrick 7:52

right. Uh let me ask you this what what do you do if you are finding that people are reluctant are reluctant uh to commit or to buy, especially during these times of uncertainty?

Jay Abraham 8:05

There's many ways to compensate. One is you extend risk reversal. Anytime two people come together, Jim, we've talked about it in other sessions we've done uh for any reason, particularly to exchange you know value for money, one side is always asking the other, implicitly, explicitly, knowingly, unknowingly, uh uh consciously or subconsciously, not unconscious. Unconscious means you're you're not there to take on all more most of the risk. If you understand that risk is a more of a driver of non-action in a bad economy, right now people don't have a clue what's gonna go on tomorrow. They don't know if their insurance bill is gonna go up, they don't know if the if the tariffs are gonna kill them, they don't know if the tariffs are gonna kill them for their business or the care tariffs are gonna kill them for their consumer side of their lives. And they're frozen, they're apathetic, they're they're they're they're uh they don't know what to do. So if you make it easy and you say, look, this product, this service should be an essential component if you're doing business to business, business to consumer. And we don't want you to have any apprehensions. So why don't you try it at our risk? You still have to pay, but if at the end of X amount of months, usages, whatever it is, uh, you don't see the value, you can return it or we'll stop billing you. And you make the risk reversal so wonderful that it's easier for them to still say yes. That's the first thing. Second, give them terms. If they're not buying and you and you have a product or service that either can be financed or you have enough margin in it that you can carry uh the payment yourself, or you have enough repeat that it doesn't matter, make it easy. And today I just did a a proposal to somebody. We get $400,000 a year for a mentorship. They said we'd like to do it, but we can't write a check for $400,000. Now, I didn't have them before. If I don't have them after, then it was a lost cause. If I have them and I have to give them 15 months of payments, does it really matter? And for me, I'm doing very expensive expertise, but I don't have any cost other than this, if that makes sense. So it's it's realizing what does it take to make that easier to say yes than no? The next is add a bunch of bonuses to it. Look at the profit that you would make and realize if you're not going to make that profit, making a portion of that profit because you take some of the profit and invest it in other additive products, services, guarantees, warranties, you know, service, contract, whatever you give to it to make it irresistible. Irresistible. I think I said this in another interview we did. Your goal is to make irresistible offers and unbeatable propositions, because if you do not, then what you are doing is making resistible offers and beatable propositions. And in a down market or a stalled market or a stagnant market, when people, when your competitors are all reacting and and constricting, that's not what you want to do. Now, that doesn't mean you want to be a drunken sailor and and promiscuously spend a lot of money. It means you want to basically do more of the things that resonate with the market that get them comfortable saying yes and yes to you. And a lot of them will actually flock their current provider if the current provider really reduces services, attention, uh, terminates the people they like to deal with, terminates some of the you know support people, all those factors work to your advantage as long as the the company I'm describing isn't you.

Jim Fitzpatrick 12:07

Yeah, yeah, that's that's right. That's right.

Three Levers To Boost Sales

Jim Fitzpatrick 12:09

Let me ask you this what what are the three areas that you can impact to stimulate more sales now?

Jay Abraham 12:17

Well, the first one is is just to look at how you're selling. Because again, if you're a very sophisticated company, you might do this. There's all kinds of factors that can make your ads pull two, three times better, your leads convert you know 50 to 200% better, your buyers buy ethically more each time they purchase and buy more. There's all kinds of ways to take buyers that stop buying and reactivate them, take buyers who bought everything and find other partnering ways you can bring other uh related products in. There are all kinds of ways to make your salespeople more uh effective so you get more utility out of the people they interact with, the time they use. That's one way, and I can go through them all. The next is is structure as many uh collaborative partnerships as you can. You know this about me because we've talked about this. We have done billions, not millions, billions of dollars for clients and and colleagues by figuring out who already has a direct, trusted, credible relationship with the same marketplace, the same buying group that you want to target and is not competitive. But once and if they believe in you would be comfortable recommending, endorsing, co-branding your product to their markets. When you do that, you can open up mass, almost overnight uh treasure troves of new business. And the cost to you as far as risk is zero. You only pay on results. I think I told you the story. And what I didn't tell you is half of the story was done in a very bad downward market. We did 250 million dollars, quarter billion dollars of seminars or on a global basis, and I invested a whopping 300 grand out of pocket to do 250 million dollars. Wow. You know, what is that? Is that uh uh is that 10 figures, 11 figures, whatever it is, because I was able to partner with people that already had the audience and they put their audience, uh, they put their audience in my hands. They recommended me, they endorsed me, they sold to me, promoted me. So that's the second. The third is look at your buyer base and figure out what other ways you can ethically monetize them. What else do they buy before, during, after in terms of your product? What else does that decision maker buy that you could basically introduce to them? You don't have to buy a product and start a company. You find companies that are much more distressed than you are, and you work out deals where you take their products or services to your distribution and you get half of the revenue continually. Or pardon me again, you might get a you know a private label, a wet label, or you put your brand on it.

Jim Fitzpatrick 15:14

And to your point, there are these companies out there that may are maybe looking for that opportunity. Maybe they didn't come calling, but if you do a little search on that and you spend some time, you may find that company that says, Wow, this is a huge opportunity for us, and thank you for choosing us, and let's let's get going together on this.

Jay Abraham 15:33

And this is yeah, you you just nailed it. They they're not going to be knocking on your door because they're not that enlightened, but they have a bigger problem than you do. They're companies that don't have good distribution, good sales, good marketing, and they're probably dying at a far more uh uh they're plummeting at a far worse level than you or your or or your other industries. And if you can basically connect with them, you put them through your your distribution. If you have a buyer base that you you you sold everything you could to, even prospects who didn't buy your product or service and either bought a competitor's or didn't buy or bought an alternative, there are other things they buy. You already have a sunk cost, either in in the lead or the buyer that you generated from marketing or sales calls or the or the support you you put into it to close the sale. Now you say, how many other ways can we ethically uh capitalize? I'm trying to think of who I talked to yesterday.

Monetize Trust Beyond Your Product

Jay Abraham 16:35

I had a consult yesterday, I can't remember who it was, but most companies think of themselves in one simple way. I told you I was doing a uh, and this might be interesting, I was doing a consult today to a very unique company that sells LED lighting to uh to soccer clubs throughout Germany. Okay, they have 10,000 prospects, they sell about a thousand every month or every year, and once they sell a set of uh an installed set of lighting, you don't have another sale for 15 years, years, not months. And I said, Well, what else do you do with that with that relationship? Nothing. I said, why? They go, what do you mean? We're an LED lighting company. I said, really, that's the product you currently sell, but you are a business that develops very trusting relationships with the heads of soccer clubs who buy a lot more things. They buy uniforms, they buy insurance, they buy uh ways to make the fans monetize better, whether it's uh whether it's clothing or whether it's concessions. And I said, any and all those, if you already have the trust of the manager, the decision maker, you could put anybody else through your distribution. That's right. So I'm just giving you ways of it's all about the relationship. Yeah, and people don't realize a lot of times they believe that the asset is uh no, they see themselves in a very rigid, very linear way. I am a, in this case, lighting company, or I say this. But the real way to look at yourself is that I am a very significant relationship builder who has gained trust and credibility and direct access to a decision maker who is going to buy a lot more of a certain number of things and who would buy other things they're not even aware of now. And I have this wonderful opportunity to double or redouble the lifetime value that I can generate from a buyer or even a non-purchasing prospect from a salesperson, from a distributor by putting many more things through that sunk cost pipeline or our distribution channel I've already created.

Jim Fitzpatrick 18:52

That's right. You may even find that as the lighting contractor, you were very you were a lot more successful in sales and profitability on maybe another product that you sold those soccer clubs. Um, we've seen companies in time, you know, pivot to a different product or service. I agree. Uh, just through just be just out of the need of making the pivot, and then realizing, wow, there's a lot more profit after we made this pivot to a different product or service to our very uh to the very same customer base that we had.

Jay Abraham 19:23

That's a brilliant insight. There's a spin on it too that's really interesting. I don't want to blow people's mind, but we can't. And and that is you might accidentally find that a product or service you start to put through your distribution that may not be as expensive and isn't going to be as complex a decision and isn't going to be purchased once every 15 years is so appealing that you can make that a front end that gets people starting a relationship with you instead of waiting till they need to spend $20,000 every 15 years on lighting.

Jim Fitzpatrick 19:57

That's right. That's right. Yeah.

Jay Abraham 20:00

All this really embodies saying you have to think differently than any of your competitors about everything you do, everyone you do it with, every way you do it, and all that is possible beyond the limited way you see yourself and your business today.

Jim Fitzpatrick 20:17

That's right. And I and I agree with you. We do, as uh uh entrepreneurs often have those blinders on that if we are just a in this case, just a lighting company, we think of ourselves as a lighting company. We don't allow ourselves to be more creative to say if tomorrow somebody said, Okay, you can you you'll have the same trucks, the same people, the same facility, uh, the same customer base, but you can't sell lighting. What else would you do? And then, of course, in most cases, most entrepreneurs come up with something, you know, in 24 hours and say, Great, I've got another product or service that I can sell to this same. Well, if that's the case, why why take why do you why wait for the for the for the uh traumatic you know situation where you couldn't sell lighting? Uh just just start tomorrow and and and offer something else, you know, and to your point partner with another company to find whatever that product or service is.

Jay Abraham 21:08

I

Recruit Competitor Rainmakers Early

Jay Abraham 21:09

love that. Also, if you really want to be uh you want to be sublime, you go on LinkedIn and you find everybody right now who has been or is working in sales at any of your competitors, anybody who's selling anything to, in this case, soccer clubs, and you start a relationship with them right now because it's only a matter of time statistically before some of these people are going to be out in the in the cold.

Jim Fitzpatrick 21:36

Right.

Jay Abraham 21:36

If you're in their lives right now, you're preemptively going to have first access either to them if you want to hire them, to them if you want to just do a profit partnership to them, if you want them to just be an introduction. But you're you're proactive at a strategic level that is so beyond the scope of anything your competitors could even fathom.

Jim Fitzpatrick 21:57

That's right. That's right. Let me ask you this what do you? Do if new technology, buying trends, uh media sources, make your approaches obsolete.

Buy Or Partner For New Tech

Jim Fitzpatrick 22:07

Um, there's so many people out there, as you know, companies that are now employing AI and so many other different types of technologies to move their companies forward, whether it be online or e-commerce or any of those different things. Um, what what's your take on that? And what do you suggest?

Jay Abraham 22:23

Well, yeah, my take, and this is what I would do, not necessarily what everybody would do. I it depends, three or four different scenarios. It's never one size fits all. Assuming I'm a reasonably, I have been a reasonably successful company, capital position is not hand to mouth. What I would probably do is is evaluate how long it would take me and my company to create such uh a technology or a new a new uh product category, or I would search the whole world to see who's already got something, but they are embryonic in their distribution and their success. And I would either acquire them, I would partner with them, I would basically invest in them. I wouldn't try to basically keep treading water until I'm no longer viable. I would basically say, okay, if this is the trend and this is where it's going, and what I do is rapidly becoming obsolete, I can basically wither down to irrelevance, or I can get control because I've got distribution, I've got, I've got uh, I've got uh access, I've got salespeople, I've got databases, and these other smaller companies that might have the right technology but don't have the resources, and it's gonna take them three years, two years to get there, I can do it in two months, and we can both win. That's how I would do it.

Jim Fitzpatrick 23:49

Yeah, yeah. And and sometimes that's what it takes, thinking outside the box like

The Biggest Downturn Mistakes

Jim Fitzpatrick 23:54

that. Um, what are the biggest biggest mistakes entrepreneurs make when when dealing with a downturn in in the economy?

Jay Abraham 24:02

Well, they think they have no control, yeah. They're very reactive, yeah, they're scared. Many younger ones have never ever navigated a downturn.

Jim Fitzpatrick 24:11

This is true.

Jay Abraham 24:12

And a lot of them have been successful because just they've been they've been carried by the jet stream that has occurred for so long.

Jim Fitzpatrick 24:20

Sure.

Jay Abraham 24:20

And secondly, a lot of them bought into the belief that one or two tactics is going to carry them forever, and so they don't really have a a strongly um well-hedged business, uh, business generation model. Uh, you know, most of them get uh and we've we taught this for years and years. Most people get most businesses get almost all of their revenue from one primary source. And when uh when a market constricts, that source is going to constrict too. But there's lots of other ways you can do it. If you look at uh thousand different diverse companies right now, if we pulled them all together from your from your platform, you'd see some get all their business from salespeople, some from digital marketing, some from webinars, some from uh trade publications, some from uh lunch and learn, some from organic. And if you said, okay, we only do one, our company does one, if we added those additional sourcing mechanisms which drive 100% of other businesses, and we only got 10 or 15 more business from each of them, that could double or redouble our business, even though the market is dropping. That's probably another way to do it. Another way to do it is literally to um, you know, to try to generate more revenue from everybody you deal with right now. Um yeah, those are probably two easy ones to do it, but I mean, but I think the the the the supposition that we go into is that we're doing okay. And when in fact most small medium companies, and I'm discounting larger ones, if they're over 100 million, they're usually going to be more sophisticated. But if you're under 100 million, and particularly if you're in the the the the sweet spot that most entrepreneurs are, which is a million to maybe five, you haven't even begun to know how to maximize advertising.

Fix Your Ads With Eight Tweaks

Jay Abraham 26:22

You I mean, there's eight categories that you can change in it, in it, it's a universal uh uh let's see if I can uh articulate this right. What I'm about to say applies to ads, but it also applies to sales approaches. You can change the headline uh and and in an ad or the equivalent, and it can double, redouble, redouble again the results. Usually the headline most people use is is very tepid and weak and weak. If you have a headline that denominates the benefit, the advantage, the protection that your product service is going to give them, it intensifies the appeal. You change the positioning that you use for it. You change how you prove the performance or the promise, or you demonstrate the superiority of how your product service company performs by either articulating the components or the training or the or or you know the sources of it. You you increase the proof, all the people that you introduce who are credible, who have gotten great results and encourage people that they want you want to take action on this because this, meaning your product service company, is is so good. You change the bonuses that you use, and you always use a bonus incentive just to add one more dimension of weight. I look at selling and marketing as you would the scales of justice, Jim. I hope you can see this. I can hand in front of my face, but this one is more. And what you're trying to do is put more weight on on moving forward than equivocating or procrastinating or contemplating. And it's very simple when you understand it. The same thing in selling. If a salesperson doesn't really have a strong initial positioning, if a salesperson doesn't really have a great way to prove the performance superiority and the value, whether it's in savings and productivity and profitability, if it's business to business, in lifestyle, and in in whatever it would be if it's bit B2C, then that may work okay when people are more buyers than they are needing to be sold, if that makes sense. Today the market has shifted. There was a time for you know, we've been very blessed for many years. People were they were they were natural buyers. And and the resistance was it was just a matter of who you're gonna deal with. You're gonna deal with Jim, you're gonna deal with Jay. That's right. They have to be sold. I mean, the reality is we've been very lucky, if that makes sense.

Jim Fitzpatrick 29:06

Yes, yes, it does make sense. Yeah, yeah, there's there's there's

Mindset That Creates Recession Winners

Jim Fitzpatrick 29:10

no question about it. Um, and and uh I it should be said that there's been a great number of companies that have been studied uh that that uh that are successful companies in the US and around the globe that started during a recession that started during very, very difficult times. Starbucks being one of them, and then there's there's uh so many others, Walmart being another one.

Jay Abraham 29:29

And I think Microsoft, I think, started during it. Um I mean, and and Warren Buffett has, I don't have the quote, but he had a great quote that the greatest opportunities can be taken advantage of in downtimes, not up ones.

Jim Fitzpatrick 29:42

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Jay Abraham 29:44

But it's a mindset as well as it is actions. If you don't believe, I mean, uh, we have these and and we talked about last time you and I were together, but we talked about the nine drivers of exponential growth, and that's how to grow any business exponentially. And usually the exponential that I look at is the bottom line, not just the top line. Yeah, much easier to grow the bottom line. But the point is one of them is your ideology, your belief system. If you believe everything we're talking about today can't possibly work for you, is beyond your capability, right? It's too complex, is requires too much uh too much too much uh movement from your your status quo thinking. Guess what? You're right. And I can't help you. And all we're talking about, it's probably the the the better thing is what do you do when your business is falling apart and you either sell it or you know, or you uh or you find another job, or I mean, because if you don't have a proactive uh an offensive strategy, then you have to play very, very difficult defense.

Jim Fitzpatrick 30:56

That's right, that's right. And there's a lot of entrepreneurs out there that find themselves, you know, getting into a rut, uh, looking at the glass as only half empty instead of half full. And that can be kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? If they allow themselves to uh to go further into that hole. Um, it's really to your point, it really is a mindset.

Jay Abraham 31:17

Yeah, and I think an analogy, I like metaphors, I think it's the it's the frog they put into uh a pot of cold water and they start heating it and heating it, and it doesn't try to get out because it just sort of stays there and accepts it. That's right. I call it the Poseidon syndrome. You're sitting there and you're seeing this uh except the Poseidon, I think, couldn't get out of the way, but you have the ability. I mean, we just laid out it might sound a little complex because I'm ADD, but we just laid out a multitude of ways.

Jim Fitzpatrick 31:49

You can take wherever you are in your business, whatever kind of business, and you can basically control and be and and command and and demand far greater uh yield from whatever is happening in your market, but none of that happens if you want to be the frog in the water or you want to be the Poseidon seeing the tidal wave coming at you and going, and for those of you that don't remember the Poseidon venture, as I do, and I know Jay does, that was an incredible movie and uh all about a huge cruise liner that uh gets hit by a tidal wave and to your point just sits there and doesn't do anything.

Jay Abraham 32:27

There was a newer version 10 years later, but maybe I'm two.

Jim Fitzpatrick 32:29

That's right. No, I think there was. You're you're exactly right. You're exactly

Final Thoughts And Farewell

Jim Fitzpatrick 32:33

right. It is always a pleasure. Jay Abraham with Strategy Sessions. Um, thank you so much for joining me once again on the show. We very much appreciate it. I know that our listeners and viewers get so much out of uh your your visit with us. So thanks. Thanks so much, and until next time, stay well, my friend.

Jay Abraham 32:49

Thank you.